NVCwiki - Contributions de l’utilisateur [fr]

Aide:Traduction

2006-12-26T16:43:46Z

Godfrey Spencer : paragraphe n° 3 (après § 2 "redimensionner ... l'écran")

Cette page est destinée à recenser tous les moyens pour faciliter les traductions sur ce wiki.

== Résumé ==

Étapes recommandées :
# [[Special:Userlogin|Créer un compte ou se connecter]] pour faciliter le suivi des modifications réalisées par soi-même '''et''' par les autres (cf. [[Guide de connexion]])
# Prendre connaissance de la [[Procédure de traduction]] (indépendante du wiki)
# Choisir une des pages de la [[:Catégorie:Traduction en cours]]
# Cliquer sur ''modifier'' en haut de la page, ou à droite du titre du paragraphe à modifier
# Écrire ses modifications (en s'inspirant au besoin du guide ci-dessous [[#Utilisation de plusieurs fenêtres]])
# Donner un titre à ces modifications dans le champs ''Résumé'' (en bas de page), pour aider à lire l'historique des modifications de la page
# Cliquer en bas de page sur ''Prévisualisation'', pour vérifier l'aspect des modifications réalisées
# Cliquer en bas de page sur '''Sauvegarder''', pour... sauvegarder les modifications.

Et voilà, c'est tout {{joie}}

== Utilisation de plusieurs fenêtres ==

Pour le traducteur, il est bien pratique d'avoir deux fenêtres :
* une pour la langue cible et une pour la langue source
: ''Dans l'exemple ci-dessous : une pour la VF ([[Historique des besoins]]) et une pour la VO ([[:en:Needs_history|Needs history]])''

Voici une description de la procédure pour arriver à un tel résultat :
# ouvrir la page qui reçoit la traduction (dans cette exemple la VF)
# redimensionner cette page pour qu'elle occupe la moitié gauche de l'écran
# dans la colonne à gauche de la page que vous venez d'ouvir, sous l'onglet '''autres langues''', utiliser le ''click droit'' sur la langue qui vous intéresse, dans notre exemple 'English'. Vous obtenez l'original.
# déplacer la nouvelle fenêtre vers la droite et redimensionner la fenêtre pour qu'elle occupe l'autre moitié de l'écran

Voilà vous avez maintenant deux fenêtres indépendantes, pour faire glisser et modifier les textes à votre convenance.

Ci-dessous '''deux copies d'écran''' de ce à quoi ça pourrait ressembler :
* la première '''avant''' d'avoir cliqué sur le bouton '''modifier''' de la fenêtre en VF
* la deuxième '''après''' avoir cliqué sur le bouton '''modifier''' de la fenêtre en VF

http://nvc-europe.org/wiki-rp/images/Cote-a-cote.jpg

----

http://nvc-europe.org/wiki-rp/images/Cote-a-cote_2.jpg

Procédure de traduction

2006-12-22T19:07:31Z

Godfrey Spencer :

# Le '''texte est traduit''' par un traducteur ayant une maîtrise reconnue de la Communication NonViolente, ayant une connaissance avérée de la langue source et ayant comme langue maternelle la langue cible. Le traducteur aura à cœur de s'entretenir avec l'auteur.
# La traduction est révisée par une personne ayant une maîtrise reconnue de la Communication NonViolente, ayant une connaissance avérée de la langue cible et ayant comme langue maternelle la langue source. '''Cette première révision''' est destinée à mettre en exergue des différences d’interprétation entre le traducteur et le réviseur.
# Le traducteur revoit cette première révision (la '''deuxième version de la traduction''') et apporte éventuellement des modification à sa traduction initiale.
# La '''troisième version de la traduction''' (deuxième révision) est révisée par une personne ayant une maîtrise reconnue de la Communication NonViolente et une connaissance avérée de la langue cible seulement. Cette relecture est destinée à faire évoluer le texte vers une expression écrite claire, simple et agréable à lire, sans pour autant en modifier le contenu.
# Le traducteur revoit la troisième révision (la '''quatrième version de la traduction''') pour soumettre un manuscrit définitif destiné à la publication.

Procédure initié par [http://godfreyspencer.com Godfrey Spencer] le 21 février 2006 et traduite tant bien que mal par [[Utilisateur:Dieudo|Dieudonné]] de sa version originale, [[:en:Translation procedure]].

[[en:Translation procedure]]
[[Catégorie:Traduction en cours]]

Procédure de traduction

2006-12-22T19:06:30Z

Godfrey Spencer : Phrrase ajoutée au point # 1

# Le '''texte est traduit''' par un traducteur ayant une maîtrise reconnue de la Communication NonViolente, ayant une connaissance avérée de la langue source et ayant comme langue maternelle la langue cible. e traducteur aura à cœur de s'entretenir avec l'auteur.
# La traduction est révisée par une personne ayant une maîtrise reconnue de la Communication NonViolente, ayant une connaissance avérée de la langue cible et ayant comme langue maternelle la langue source. '''Cette première révision''' est destinée à mettre en exergue des différences d’interprétation entre le traducteur et le réviseur.
# Le traducteur revoit cette première révision (la '''deuxième version de la traduction''') et apporte éventuellement des modification à sa traduction initiale.
# La '''troisième version de la traduction''' (deuxième révision) est révisée par une personne ayant une maîtrise reconnue de la Communication NonViolente et une connaissance avérée de la langue cible seulement. Cette relecture est destinée à faire évoluer le texte vers une expression écrite claire, simple et agréable à lire, sans pour autant en modifier le contenu.
# Le traducteur revoit la troisième révision (la '''quatrième version de la traduction''') pour soumettre un manuscrit définitif destiné à la publication.

Procédure initié par [http://godfreyspencer.com Godfrey Spencer] le 21 février 2006 et traduite tant bien que mal par [[Utilisateur:Dieudo|Dieudonné]] de sa version originale, [[:en:Translation procedure]].

[[en:Translation procedure]]
[[Catégorie:Traduction en cours]]

Discussion utilisateur:Godfrey Spencer

2006-05-02T08:38:02Z

Godfrey Spencer : /* Test */

Discussion utilisateur:Godfrey Spencer

2006-05-02T08:37:34Z

Godfrey Spencer : Test

== Test ==

Godfrey modifie sa page de discussion

Historique des besoins

2006-05-02T08:08:50Z

Godfrey Spencer : /* Allan */

== Un échange à ce sujet (VF) ==
Traduction en cours. Merci de vous [[Special:Userlogin|créer un compte]] (en haut à droite),
pour que l'on puisse plus facilement dialoguer autour de la traduction :)

=== Allan ===
J'aime bien connaître l'évolution et l'histoire des idées qui ont du sens pour moi. J'ai envie de partager avec vous mes propres souvenirs qui pourraient constituer un cadre pour montrer les étapes qui ont conduit à l'introduction dans le processus de la phase des besoins.

J'ai assisté à mon premier atelier en 1973. Alors que les autres phases du processus n'ont presque pas bougé (les comportments, les sentiments, les souhaits, l'empathie), j'observe des changements importants à la troisième. Je crois que les besoins ne sont pas entrés en scène avant le début des années 90s (je n'ai pas vérifié tous les documents de séance que j'ai reçus pour établir la première date de l'inclusion des besoins). Cependant, lors de mon premier atelier, Marshall décrivit la troisième phase en disant "parce que tel souhait". Les besoins ne figuraient pas dans les textes (A Manual for Responsible Thinking and Communicating, 1972). En 1976 (From Now On), la description de la troisième phase se lisait "qu'est-ce qui se passe en moi et qui contribue à ce que j'ai les sentiments qui m'habitent en cet instant ?" Les associations avec des souhaits du passé, les interprétations actuelles, les anticipations et la conscience des souhaits comblés et non comblés en constituaient les "formes" y énumérées. En 1979 (From Now On), intervient un léger changement : "que suis-je en train de faire et qui contribue à ce que j'ai les sentiments qui m'habitent en cet instant tenant compte de mon vécu, d'événements futurs dans mon imaginaire et des valeurs considérées comme choix éventuels. En 1982 (A Model for Nonviolent Communication), la troisième phase devint "ce qui a des la valeur pour moi". En 1987, la publication 'Nonviolent Communication Workbook' décrivit la troisième phase ainsi : "les désirs qui engendrent les sentiments".

So when this step evolved into "needs" I don't quite remember, but my best recollection is that somewhere in the mid 90s was when it was introduced. Even in the first edition of Nonviolent Communication (1999) the step is called "taking responsibility for our feelings" although "needs" are now clearly identified and listed.
Although Marshall may have thought about it, as you report, and had it "one day just hit me", the "hit me" was after years of other permutations. My interpretation of what Marshall said to you is this: that the third step of what yields feelings came to him early in his feeling awareness and then was explicated over a period of years until the present concept of "needs" emerged. I'd be very surprised if Marshall wasn't aware of Maslow all along. My guess is what Maslow was theorizing about was something quite different than the idea/feeling/problem that Marshall was trying to clarify and express (Maslows theory is a general theory about human growth and development, not about what sparks this feeling, nor what drives this specific behavior).
I was always intrigued by the third step (still am) and how it was evolving, wondering with excitement, when Marshall would come to town what his newest understanding would be.
Lane Moore, a former board member, had an even earlier contact with Marshall than I. I wonder how Marshall spoke of this step when Lane first had contact, in the late 60s.
Allan Rohlfs
Chicago

== Un échange à ce sujet (VO) ==

=== Allan ===

I enjoy knowing the development and history of ideas that are meaningful to me. I was interested in hearing your report of Marshall's recollection of needs. I want to add mine which may give a time frame to the introduction of the needs step of the model.

I took my first workshop in 1973 and have seen quite a change in the third step while the others have remained virtually the same, viz., behaviors, feelings, wants, empathy. Needs didn't come into play until the early 1990s I believe. (I haven' checked all my materials to see when it was first a part of printed handouts). But in my first workshop Marshall called the third step, "because wants" and needs is not in the vocabulary, (A Manual for Responsible Thinking and Communicating, 1972); in 1976 (From Now On), the third step was "what's going on in me that contributes to my feeling as I do" and associations with past wants, present interpretations, predictions, and awareness of wants being fulfilled/not fulfilled are the "forms" listed. This changed a bit in 1979 (From Now On) to "what am I doing that contributes to my feeling as I do with things from the past, imagining future events, and values being listed as possible choices. In 1982 (A Model for Nonviolent Communication) the third step was expressed as "valuing". In 1987 (Nonviolent Communication Workbook) "desires contributing to feelings" was how the third step was named.

So when this step evolved into "needs" I don't quite remember, but my best recollection is that somewhere in the mid 90s was when it was introduced. Even in the first edition of Nonviolent Communication (1999) the step is called "taking responsibility for our feelings" although "needs" are now clearly identified and listed.

Although Marshall may have thought about it, as you report, and had it "one day just hit me", the "hit me" was after years of other permutations. My interpretation of what Marshall said to you is this: that the third step of what yields feelings came to him early in his feeling awareness and then was explicated over a period of years until the present concept of "needs" emerged. I'd be very surprised if Marshall wasn't aware of Maslow all along. My guess is what Maslow was theorizing about was something quite different than the idea/feeling/problem that Marshall was trying to clarify and express (Maslows theory is a general theory about human growth and development, not about what sparks this feeling, nor what drives this specific behavior).

I was always intrigued by the third step (still am) and how it was evolving, wondering with excitement, when Marshall would come to town what his newest understanding would be.

Lane Moore, a former board member, had an even earlier contact with Marshall than I. I wonder how Marshall spoke of this step when Lane first had contact, in the late 60s.

Allan Rohlfs
:Chicago

=== Lane ===

Allan, Good to see your voice!!

Marian and I had our first contact with MR in 1970 or '71. Our first workshop with him was a marriage enrichment week end. I'd love to tell that story but it is too long for the combination of my writing and remembering skills combined with e-mail.

But very clear in our minds is a two step process---feelings and wants. I still find myself thinking that way occasionally. The change to the four step model took place over 20 or so years, as best I can recall.

Your first contact was in 1973!!--You must be getting old! :-))

Lane

=== Holley ===

Hi Allan, Lane and all,
I have been enjoying this needs discussion. Allan and Lane's
historical report of the introduction of needs stimulated my jumping
in here.. Here's my recollection...

When I began hanging around Marshall in about 1984, he was
introducing the third step as I recall, in a way that came out with
choices.. something like, "Because I was hoping, wishing, wanting,
needing..." The word "needing" was just one of many options.
Sometimes it also included words such as; dreaming, preferring,
would have liked etc...

An aside: I liked the choices because they gave us flexibility to
speak with more naturalness and sound less "stilted or jargon-like".
I still encourage guessing the wishes and wants before the needs.
People express great sighs of relief when they hear that they can
guess wishes and wants before getting to the specific need. (their
need is to be able to connect in a more natural way.
: For example: In response to something like: "I don't want it to always be just about me.."
: first a listener might offer: "Sounds as if you wish people would acknowledge their part in things. Is that right?
:("yes, exactly. ")
: Then the listener might guess a need: "Are you needing more honesty or accountability?"

I once asked Marshall, what happened to the "wishes and wants" . I
recall him saying that he still sees the value in them.. It is just
that he's usually in a time crunch. In the few hours he usually has
with people, he wants to give them the information as succinctly as
he can. I was relieved because I value the seeming gentleness of
guessing wishes and preferences etc... first. I believe by
identifying the wishes and wants first and not jumping right to the
need, helps me tune in better, create more safety and therefore more
trust. Does this stir any desire for comments in anyone?

The concept of "needs based" was not existent. Even in 1990 when I
created the 3 hour training video and my practice workbook, we were
using the words, "wants, hopes and wishes" more than "needs".

In the early 80's we also had another line which brought out the idea
of our thoughts as influencing our feelings, which was... "Because I
am telling myself.." or "because I tell myself..." Anyone else
remember that? I still find that useful at times... even if I just do
it silently.

While we are in historical mode, does anyone remember the "Great
Peony" thread? I can't quite remember if that fit into the third
step or not... Maybe it was just about seeding NVC.

THis is fun.
:Happily, Holley

[[en:Needs history]]

Historique des besoins

2006-05-02T07:44:51Z

Godfrey Spencer : /* Allan */

== Un échange à ce sujet (VF) ==
Traduction en cours. Merci de vous [[Special:Userlogin|créer un compte]] (en haut à droite),
pour que l'on puisse plus facilement dialoguer autour de la traduction :)

=== Allan ===
Note de Godfrey. Parce que je ne parviens pas à 'modifier' le document dans la présentation (par ailleurs superbe !) en deux colonne, je suis allé dans le document en langue anglaise. J'y ai sélectionné le premier message. J'ai fait 'copier'. Je me suis rendu ensuite dans le document où nous faisons la traduction. J'ai fait 'coller' en-dessous du texte français existant. J'ai commencé à traduire. Cette méthode n'est pas bonne car le lecteur, qui souhaite vérifier ma traduction et y apporter des modifications, ne peut pas le faire en regardant en même temps le texte anglais original.
---------------------------------------------

J'aime bien connaître l'évolution et l'histoire des idées qui ont du sens pour moi. J'ai envie de partager avec vous mes propres souvenirs qui pourraient constituer un cadre pour montrer les étapes qui ont conduit à l'introduction dans le processus de la phase des besoins.

J'ai assisté à mon premier atelier en 1973. Alors que les autres phases du processus n'ont presque pas bougé (les comportments, les sentiments, les souhaits, l'empathie), j'observe des changements importants à la troisième. Je crois que les besoins ne sont pas entrés en scène avant le début des années 90s (je n'ai pas vérifié tous les documents de séance que j'ai reçus pour établir la première date de l'inclusion des besoins). Cependant, lors de mon premier atelier, Marshall décrivit la troisième phase en disant "parce que tel souhait". Les besoins ne figuraient pas dans les textes (A Manual for Responsible Thinking and Communicating, 1972). En 1976 (From Now On), la description de la troisième phase se lisait "qu'est-ce qui se passe en moi et qui contribue à ce que j'ai les sentiments qui m'habitent en cet instant ?" Les associations avec des souhaits du passé, les interprétations actuelles, les anticipations et la conscience des souhaits comblés et non comblés en constituaient les "formes" y énumérées. En 1979 (From Now On), intervient un léger changement : "que suis-je en train de faire et qui contribue à ce que j'ai les sentiments qui m'habitent en cet instant tenant compte de mon vécu, d'événements futurs dans mon imaginaire et des valeurs considérées comme choix éventuels. En 1982 (A Model for Nonviolent Communication), la troisième phase devint "ce qui a des la valeur pour moi". En 1987, la publication 'Nonviolent Communication Workbook' décrivit la troisième phase ainsi : "les désirs qui engendrent les sentiments".

So when this step evolved into "needs" I don't quite remember, but my best recollection is that somewhere in the mid 90s was when it was introduced. Even in the first edition of Nonviolent Communication (1999) the step is called "taking responsibility for our feelings" although "needs" are now clearly identified and listed.
Although Marshall may have thought about it, as you report, and had it "one day just hit me", the "hit me" was after years of other permutations. My interpretation of what Marshall said to you is this: that the third step of what yields feelings came to him early in his feeling awareness and then was explicated over a period of years until the present concept of "needs" emerged. I'd be very surprised if Marshall wasn't aware of Maslow all along. My guess is what Maslow was theorizing about was something quite different than the idea/feeling/problem that Marshall was trying to clarify and express (Maslows theory is a general theory about human growth and development, not about what sparks this feeling, nor what drives this specific behavior).
I was always intrigued by the third step (still am) and how it was evolving, wondering with excitement, when Marshall would come to town what his newest understanding would be.
Lane Moore, a former board member, had an even earlier contact with Marshall than I. I wonder how Marshall spoke of this step when Lane first had contact, in the late 60s.
Allan Rohlfs
Chicago

== Un échange à ce sujet (VO) ==

=== Allan ===

I enjoy knowing the development and history of ideas that are meaningful to me. I was interested in hearing your report of Marshall's recollection of needs. I want to add mine which may give a time frame to the introduction of the needs step of the model.

I took my first workshop in 1973 and have seen quite a change in the third step while the others have remained virtually the same, viz., behaviors, feelings, wants, empathy. Needs didn't come into play until the early 1990s I believe. (I haven' checked all my materials to see when it was first a part of printed handouts). But in my first workshop Marshall called the third step, "because wants" and needs is not in the vocabulary, (A Manual for Responsible Thinking and Communicating, 1972); in 1976 (From Now On), the third step was "what's going on in me that contributes to my feeling as I do" and associations with past wants, present interpretations, predictions, and awareness of wants being fulfilled/not fulfilled are the "forms" listed. This changed a bit in 1979 (From Now On) to "what am I doing that contributes to my feeling as I do with things from the past, imagining future events, and values being listed as possible choices. In 1982 (A Model for Nonviolent Communication) the third step was expressed as "valuing". In 1987 (Nonviolent Communication Workbook) "desires contributing to feelings" was how the third step was named.

So when this step evolved into "needs" I don't quite remember, but my best recollection is that somewhere in the mid 90s was when it was introduced. Even in the first edition of Nonviolent Communication (1999) the step is called "taking responsibility for our feelings" although "needs" are now clearly identified and listed.

Although Marshall may have thought about it, as you report, and had it "one day just hit me", the "hit me" was after years of other permutations. My interpretation of what Marshall said to you is this: that the third step of what yields feelings came to him early in his feeling awareness and then was explicated over a period of years until the present concept of "needs" emerged. I'd be very surprised if Marshall wasn't aware of Maslow all along. My guess is what Maslow was theorizing about was something quite different than the idea/feeling/problem that Marshall was trying to clarify and express (Maslows theory is a general theory about human growth and development, not about what sparks this feeling, nor what drives this specific behavior).

I was always intrigued by the third step (still am) and how it was evolving, wondering with excitement, when Marshall would come to town what his newest understanding would be.

Lane Moore, a former board member, had an even earlier contact with Marshall than I. I wonder how Marshall spoke of this step when Lane first had contact, in the late 60s.

Allan Rohlfs
:Chicago

=== Lane ===

Allan, Good to see your voice!!

Marian and I had our first contact with MR in 1970 or '71. Our first workshop with him was a marriage enrichment week end. I'd love to tell that story but it is too long for the combination of my writing and remembering skills combined with e-mail.

But very clear in our minds is a two step process---feelings and wants. I still find myself thinking that way occasionally. The change to the four step model took place over 20 or so years, as best I can recall.

Your first contact was in 1973!!--You must be getting old! :-))

Lane

=== Holley ===

Hi Allan, Lane and all,
I have been enjoying this needs discussion. Allan and Lane's
historical report of the introduction of needs stimulated my jumping
in here.. Here's my recollection...

When I began hanging around Marshall in about 1984, he was
introducing the third step as I recall, in a way that came out with
choices.. something like, "Because I was hoping, wishing, wanting,
needing..." The word "needing" was just one of many options.
Sometimes it also included words such as; dreaming, preferring,
would have liked etc...

An aside: I liked the choices because they gave us flexibility to
speak with more naturalness and sound less "stilted or jargon-like".
I still encourage guessing the wishes and wants before the needs.
People express great sighs of relief when they hear that they can
guess wishes and wants before getting to the specific need. (their
need is to be able to connect in a more natural way.
: For example: In response to something like: "I don't want it to always be just about me.."
: first a listener might offer: "Sounds as if you wish people would acknowledge their part in things. Is that right?
:("yes, exactly. ")
: Then the listener might guess a need: "Are you needing more honesty or accountability?"

I once asked Marshall, what happened to the "wishes and wants" . I
recall him saying that he still sees the value in them.. It is just
that he's usually in a time crunch. In the few hours he usually has
with people, he wants to give them the information as succinctly as
he can. I was relieved because I value the seeming gentleness of
guessing wishes and preferences etc... first. I believe by
identifying the wishes and wants first and not jumping right to the
need, helps me tune in better, create more safety and therefore more
trust. Does this stir any desire for comments in anyone?

The concept of "needs based" was not existent. Even in 1990 when I
created the 3 hour training video and my practice workbook, we were
using the words, "wants, hopes and wishes" more than "needs".

In the early 80's we also had another line which brought out the idea
of our thoughts as influencing our feelings, which was... "Because I
am telling myself.." or "because I tell myself..." Anyone else
remember that? I still find that useful at times... even if I just do
it silently.

While we are in historical mode, does anyone remember the "Great
Peony" thread? I can't quite remember if that fit into the third
step or not... Maybe it was just about seeding NVC.

THis is fun.
:Happily, Holley

[[en:Needs history]]

Discussion:Historique des besoins

2006-05-02T06:57:10Z

Godfrey Spencer : /* Comment avoir la VO et la VF en deux colonnes ? */

== Comment avoir la VO et la VF en deux colonnes ? ==

''Pour le moment la solution la plus simple que je vois est d'ouvrir deux fenêtres (côte à côte, comme dans l'image ci-dessous)
Cher Dieudonné, J'ai essayé de 'modifier' (c'est à dire, metter en français) la colonne de droite.' J'ai mis le curseur sur Modifier. Le mot Modifier ne se souligne pas et ne réagit pas à mon click. ?? Au secours !!

Je vais essayé aussi de régler mes PRÉFÉRENCES.

http://nvc-europe.org/wiki-rp/images/Cote-a-cote.jpg

dans le navigateur (Firefox, Safari ou autre...) et de faire glisser les versions respectives à l'endroit qui nous intéresse.

Autrement, il y a aussi des possiblités d'afficher des tableaux dans les pages wikis, mais ensuite ce n'est peut-être plus très pratique quand il s'agit de modifier les textes.

A essayer :) --[[Utilisateur:Dieudo|Dieudonné]] 25 avr 2006 à 20:51 (CEST)

Discussion:Historique des besoins

2006-05-02T06:54:16Z

Godfrey Spencer : /* Comment avoir la VO et la VF en deux colonnes ? */

== Comment avoir la VO et la VF en deux colonnes ? ==

''Pour le moment la solution la plus simple que je vois est d'ouvrir deux fenêtres (côte à côte, comme dans l'image ci-dessous)
Cher Dieudonné, Je vais essayer de 'modifier' (c'est à dire, metter en français) la colonne de droite.''

http://nvc-europe.org/wiki-rp/images/Cote-a-cote.jpg

dans le navigateur (Firefox, Safari ou autre...) et de faire glisser les versions respectives à l'endroit qui nous intéresse.

Autrement, il y a aussi des possiblités d'afficher des tableaux dans les pages wikis, mais ensuite ce n'est peut-être plus très pratique quand il s'agit de modifier les textes.

A essayer :) --[[Utilisateur:Dieudo|Dieudonné]] 25 avr 2006 à 20:51 (CEST)

Historique des besoins

2006-04-24T14:41:33Z

Godfrey Spencer : /* Allan */

== Un échange à ce sujet (VF) ==
Traduction en cours. Merci de vous [[Special:Userlogin|créer un compte]] (en haut à droite),
pour que l'on puisse plus facilement dialoguer autour de la traduction :)

=== Allan ===

J'aime bien connaître l'évolution et l'histoire des idées qui ont du sens pour moi. [...]

== Un échange à ce sujet (VO) ==

=== Allan ===

I enjoy knowing the development and history of ideas that are meaningful to me. I was interested in hearing your report of Marshall's recollection of needs. I want to add mine which may give a time frame to the introduction of the needs step of the model.

I took my first workshop in 1973 and have seen quite a change in the third step while the others have remained virtually the same, viz., behaviors, feelings, wants, empathy. Needs didn't come into play until the early 1990s I believe. (I haven' checked all my materials to see when it was first a part of printed handouts). But in my first workshop Marshall called the third step, "because wants" and needs is not in the vocabulary, (A Manual for Responsible Thinking and Communicating, 1972); in 1976 (From Now On), the third step was "what's going on in me that contributes to my feeling as I do" and associations with past wants, present interpretations, predictions, and awareness of wants being fulfilled/not fulfilled are the "forms" listed. This changed a bit in 1979 (From Now On) to "what am I doing that contributes to my feeling as I do with things from the past, imagining future events, and values being listed as possible choices. In 1982 (A Model for Nonviolent Communication) the third step was expressed as "valuing". In 1987 (Nonviolent Communication Workbook) "desires contributing to feelings" was how the third step was named.

So when this step evolved into "needs" I don't quite remember, but my best recollection is that somewhere in the mid 90s was when it was introduced. Even in the first edition of Nonviolent Communication (1999) the step is called "taking responsibility for our feelings" although "needs" are now clearly identified and listed.

Although Marshall may have thought about it, as you report, and had it "one day just hit me", the "hit me" was after years of other permutations. My interpretation of what Marshall said to you is this: that the third step of what yields feelings came to him early in his feeling awareness and then was explicated over a period of years until the present concept of "needs" emerged. I'd be very surprised if Marshall wasn't aware of Maslow all along. My guess is what Maslow was theorizing about was something quite different than the idea/feeling/problem that Marshall was trying to clarify and express (Maslows theory is a general theory about human growth and development, not about what sparks this feeling, nor what drives this specific behavior).

I was always intrigued by the third step (still am) and how it was evolving, wondering with excitement, when Marshall would come to town what his newest understanding would be.

Lane Moore, a former board member, had an even earlier contact with Marshall than I. I wonder how Marshall spoke of this step when Lane first had contact, in the late 60s.

Allan Rohlfs
:Chicago

=== Lane ===

Allan, Good to see your voice!!

Marian and I had our first contact with MR in 1970 or '71. Our first workshop with him was a marriage enrichment week end. I'd love to tell that story but it is too long for the combination of my writing and remembering skills combined with e-mail.

But very clear in our minds is a two step process---feelings and wants. I still find myself thinking that way occasionally. The change to the four step model took place over 20 or so years, as best I can recall.

Your first contact was in 1973!!--You must be getting old! :-))

Lane

=== Holley ===

Hi Allan, Lane and all,
I have been enjoying this needs discussion. Allan and Lane's
historical report of the introduction of needs stimulated my jumping
in here.. Here's my recollection...

When I began hanging around Marshall in about 1984, he was
introducing the third step as I recall, in a way that came out with
choices.. something like, "Because I was hoping, wishing, wanting,
needing..." The word "needing" was just one of many options.
Sometimes it also included words such as; dreaming, preferring,
would have liked etc...

An aside: I liked the choices because they gave us flexibility to
speak with more naturalness and sound less "stilted or jargon-like".
I still encourage guessing the wishes and wants before the needs.
People express great sighs of relief when they hear that they can
guess wishes and wants before getting to the specific need. (their
need is to be able to connect in a more natural way.
: For example: In response to something like: "I don't want it to always be just about me.."
: first a listener might offer: "Sounds as if you wish people would acknowledge their part in things. Is that right?
:("yes, exactly. ")
: Then the listener might guess a need: "Are you needing more honesty or accountability?"

I once asked Marshall, what happened to the "wishes and wants" . I
recall him saying that he still sees the value in them.. It is just
that he's usually in a time crunch. In the few hours he usually has
with people, he wants to give them the information as succinctly as
he can. I was relieved because I value the seeming gentleness of
guessing wishes and preferences etc... first. I believe by
identifying the wishes and wants first and not jumping right to the
need, helps me tune in better, create more safety and therefore more
trust. Does this stir any desire for comments in anyone?

The concept of "needs based" was not existent. Even in 1990 when I
created the 3 hour training video and my practice workbook, we were
using the words, "wants, hopes and wishes" more than "needs".

In the early 80's we also had another line which brought out the idea
of our thoughts as influencing our feelings, which was... "Because I
am telling myself.." or "because I tell myself..." Anyone else
remember that? I still find that useful at times... even if I just do
it silently.

While we are in historical mode, does anyone remember the "Great
Peony" thread? I can't quite remember if that fit into the third
step or not... Maybe it was just about seeding NVC.

THis is fun.
:Happily, Holley

[[en:Needs history]]